Disappointed, But Not Surprised

these are the moments I raid for

This time last month, I wrote about waiting it out to see how our raiding schedule played out for my shadow priest horde-side. Here’s how it shook out:

  • Second early start time raid night added, for a total of 4 EP earning nights per week*
  • No additional Pacific Time weeknight progression/EP earning raid night added (Note: Pacific Time was the raid time for all the Wrath raids, which was a key factor in my joining the guild circa Ulduar)
  • An incredible # of DPS signing up for every raid night, with half those signed up, on average, being sat
  • Early start time raiders also signing up for and being seated in Pacific Time raids
  • After I got sat from my only raid signup one week, the raid scheduler tweaked the signup spreadsheet in a way that will probably usually (but not always) mean that I will be seated for the 1 weeknight I can sign up for.

Over the course of the past month, I’ve gotten to attend 3 EP earning raids. That was my typical weekly raid count for BC and Wrath. And in Wrath, the other raid officer and I were neck and neck the entire time after EP was implemented for the most EP. i.e. if there was a raid, I was there. If there was a first kill screenshot to stand in, I was in it.

Now, I’m “a casual.” And not at all by choice.What does this change for me? It means I go to raids and am killing content that other folks have already been working on for a few nights, or have killed. I have to play catch up– learning how the raid is approaching the fight, and getting into the groove with a boss fight, well behind the learning curve. I like to lead the charge. To figure things out. To be ahead of the curve. And that’s simply not what’s possible for me with this schedule.

Yes, I could raid on Saturday night if the seating chart gods aligned. However, Saturday is the 1 weekend day my SO and I both have off, and we often *gasp* — do things offline on Saturday date night. So I don’t want to commit to spending my Saturday nights in a raid group. And more to the point, I don’t want to not know until 24 hours beforehand if I am going to spend my Saturday night in a raid group. 24 hours notice is not enough advance time to make a dinner reservation, or buy advance movie tickets, or make plans to grab a City Carshare in this busy city of mine. It just doesn’t work that way.

If it was Sunday night instead, I’d be there. And I’d totally be there for the raid nights that are early starts now — but I have this thing called work that I do that pays the Internet and WoW subscription fees, and makes it impossible for me to be able to raid at the time I typically leave work each night.

And thus, I find myself without much of a reason to log in to my beloved shadow priest.

Because it’s the raiding I love. The raiding that gets my adrenaline flowing. The raiding that I spent so much time planning for and prepping for and writing about. And now it’s out of my grasp. And I am disappointed. So very disappointed.

 

*the significance here is if you receive points (EP) for time spent in raid and for killing bosses. Thus, if you are not able to attend raids, you are not earning points. If you are not earning points you will have no points to spend to buy any gear in raids. If you do not gear up in this tier of raids, you will be woefully unprepared for the next tier of raids. And so on.

32 thoughts on “Disappointed, But Not Surprised”

  1. Been there.. that’s why I am in AF now. At the end of LK, I was raiding maybe once a month because I couldnt do the weekend nights (fine) but when they would have the weekday raids, I would sign up and not get seated. Instead it was people who raided on the weekend raids which sucked. I felt like I was getting seated less and less from both the guilds I raided with. Sad because I love the guilds and the people in it.. but sucks when you cant do what you love. Also part of the reason I left my horde guild before. Raid schedule didnt work for me, so I left (then still get slack from some people over a year later.. grr)

  2. Nope. I’ve put so much time and work into Anexxia and SHP, that is not even an option. Instead looks like she is on the one day played per week plan, indefinitely.
    🙁

  3. It is funny how folks can treat you unfairly, then complain about you not sticking around, yes?
    *hugs*
    And yes this makes me doubly glad I have a good home to hang out in with my gnomies.

  4. It’s unfortunate that it’s not working out for you specifically, but it does sound like the schedule is working in general, with the need for another raid night and a plethora of people signing up. It’s good that the guild is continuing to progress.

  5. I would say yes and no. We are sitting many people from each raid, and there were 10 peeps who also preferred or really can only go to 6 ST raids. So it’s a mixed bag if we’re frank. It’s worked out great for EST people who can attend all 4 nights.

  6. I don’t see it happening there. Spent several months discussing it to death, giving myself a stomach ache that wouldn’t go away, and didn’t make any headway.

  7. That seems like enough people for another raid. Why doesn’t one of the PT-based people run another PT-friendly raid?

  8. Is there any way YOU could start a raid time you can make? Talk to the people who schedule raids – better yet figure out who else in guild is in the same basic boat you are.
    Also, I understand loyalty to a guild and wanting to be with people you’ve been with for ages, but if they aren’t giving you the same loyalty back, you really need to consider your options. In a romance, if one person is always calling the other, showering with gifts, begging for attention, and the other person is just not that into it, it’s never going to work. Same with a guild. My husband and I had to do the same sort of analysis of our needs and desires in WoW back before Cataclysm; we ended up server transferring to join a guild that offered the environment, raid opportunities, and level of activity we wanted.

  9. Its a game. You should be having fun and not have to choose SO or raid on the one night a week they offer it. Sorry to hear this is giving you such a stomach ache. Very sorry. Hugs.

  10. Same problem with me really and yeah it does suck 🙁 When we started the guild we raided at times I could raid 4 times a week easy, but then it got decided that raids come forward by an hour meaning they start before I get home so the 1 weekend raid is the only one I can do, and not every one due to family.
    Still, alt levelling is fun…….

  11. It really is disappointing to become a second class citizen overnight in a guild I have raided with for years.
    I would like to think there is a solution to be found here, but adding raid nights just doesn’t solve the problem already stated–we would still have part of the guild with a disproportionate and unfair raiding advantage. I’m not at all surprised they don’t see a problem there.
    I can’t help but feel like certain individuals have pushed for their own convenience at the expense of the guild. I feel pushed out. Having to consider looking for a new home after all the time and effort spent with the guild seems like its the only option left, and that’s not a good feeling to have.

  12. Nexxi, you don’t know how much I understand your situation.
    Living on the other half of the world, means that my daylight saving time is reversed from yours. Half the year my time is EST, the other half EST + 2.
    Analogue has it right, best course is to create your own raid, maybe outside guild; I did that a lot, also been a competent raider, I’m sure you have friends in the server that would be glad to know that they can call on you to fill raids on.
    Anyway, what you describe seems to be a symptom of over-recruiting in the guild.

  13. Sounds like a case of poor leadership to me.
    I remember not too long ago hearing a case where a fairly worthless guild/raid leader let his friends talk him into changing up the raid groups because the friend had a beef with one of the members. It only took a couple of months for the guild to follow suit in that same dickish manner and all of the long term members left the guild to start up their own. You let one person make a change for purely selfish reasons and it won’t be long before everything goes to crap.
    Not that I’m telling you to leave your guild or anything, just remembering something I read recently.
    I see some people suggesting you start your own raid group, which I guess would address the issue of not being able to raid. But sometimes you just want to be a raid *participant* not a raid *leader*. There are different levels of stress there that directly effect how much you enjoy the experience and whether or not you thrive on leadership determines how much you like or dislike it. I enjoy raiding, but I certainly wouldn’t want to be the raid leader myself.
    I don’t have any real advice to give here, and I don’t think that’s what you’re looking for. What I do have is some sincere sadness/frustration for you and your current situation, and a hope that things work out for you very soon. If the situation doesn’t fix itself, which it doesn’t seem like it’s going to, then hopefully you at least find something else that you can direct your attention to and reduce the stress and disappointment that you’re feeling now.

  14. I’m really sorry you’re having a rough time right now, that’s never fun.
    Well, that’s something similar that happened with my guild. The main group was the early people that got into a comfy spot, and everyone else was pretty much left out of the mix.
    However, they were still expected to be around if they were needed. Now, I was an officer, and I really worked hard at trying to make sure that everyone who could/wanted to raid would have an opportunity, but it really burned me out.
    I hope things get better soon, and you get to do some raiding. /hugs.

  15. I wish we had enough healers and tanks for 2 concurrent raids — that would totally be the best case scenario. But we have really only had the DPS surplus. And we just lost 2 tanks (Doogiesdad and Shina) this week.

  16. Funny you should mention starting my own raid. In early Wrath, I did get my raiding fix through a motley raid full of rejects from the island of misfit toys, called Scrubraid. It was awesome.
    🙂
    I do wish we could pick up with those folks again and carry on.
    As far as me personally starting up a raid, I’m a better raid assistant than a leader. That’s not where I get my playtime enjoyment. And frankly, due to my job responsibilities expanding significantly 6 mo ago, I don’t have the time I’d want to put into being prepared and recruiting etc.

  17. Nod, yup. I am thus trying to get this out of my system by copping to being upset, and working past it. We’ll see if it works out or if I stop playing my beloved undead shadowpriest. Again. 🙁

  18. We did eventually stop recruiting; but we really had/have enough for 25s or 2 concurrent 10s at the start of this expansion.
    I’m too stretched at the moment to start up a PUG raid, unfortunately.

  19. Thank you. I appreciate your understanding, and yes you hit the nail on the head. Just wanted to express and expel the sadness and frustration I’m feeling. So I can move on from it.
    🙂

  20. Thank you for the empathy. It’s exactly what I need at the moment. I don’t feel especially understood at the moment, which adds to the frustration. Many folks are totally OK with raiding one night per week. But it is leaving me feeling bummed out. I want to kick more butt than that with my undead lady.

  21. Even though I left SHP like 2 years ago and WOW 1 year ago; I still like to read the SHP forums to this day.
    Guld, I can give you the perspective of someone both a former member of SHP and outside of the current issue.
    Even though there is a distinction between a casual member and a raider when it comes to recruiting, I always felt that that difference is not enforced when it comes to raiding, meaning that once you are in the guild, people feel like they have a right to raid with the guild and it is allowed, even though they just applied as non raiders.
    Also, SHP lacks a policy regarding over recruting. The recruiting stopped as Nexxi said, but much to late.
    Now there are too many members wanting to raid, which will lead, as it always does, to raiders leaving the guild.
    Case scenario A) Long standing raiders, usually decent to great raiders that contribute to the guild too, start to get seated or can’t raid at all, so the leave; 90% of the time followed by friends and family, including other raiders that had no problem with the situation. The Guild takes a big performance hit, and since they now lost some key people.
    Case scenario B) Newest members can’t raid regularly, they fill spots. So they either leave or improve in hopes to earn a spot. So guild is either at least the same as before or with a better raid rooster.
    Most of the times it’s scenario A), which in time destroys a guild

  22. It seems you’ve changed your mind about staying in SHP, which is understandable. I hope to still stay in touch with you through here! I also hope you are able to find somewhere you can raid like you want to on Anexxia.
    And Halora…you’ve been out of SHP for like one year (not two, I haven’t even been in SHP for one and half years,) but I don’t think you can try to say you know what’s going on in the guild, like what its problems are, etc. I was gone for three months and I can’t even say that.

  23. You are on my friends list, lady.
    🙂
    And yes, I changed my mind last night, after receiving feedback that this post was perceived as my badmouthing the guild, which was neither my impression of how this post came across nor my intent. So I made that very difficult decision.

  24. I’d also like to add that you were always one of my favorite people to raid with and I am very happy I got to progress in ICC, defeat Arthas, and save Bolvar with you. <3

  25. Thank you hon. I will always remember freeing Bolvar and how that moment felt, with you and my other pirates. It’s irreplaceable. And I think of you every time I roll my troll dice.
    *hugs*

  26. Sad Nexxi.
    The post were just facts, though you could read your frustration in it, that’s hardly bad mouthing.
    Naie.
    No need to snap at me. I’m just stating a valid point of view, quite respectfully I might add with no value judgment against SHP. I only stated facts and yes, a few assumptions; now if I’m wrong argue against me, prove me wrong with facts of your own. What you just did was a value judgment against my post. If you can’t argue in a mature, respectful way, then don’t reply.
    Also, I left WOW, while in Killing Time, 1 year ago when I got engaged, not SHP.

  27. I wasn’t arguing. Just tired of everytime something with the guild comes up, you comment with a prophecy of doom and act like you know what is going on, based on what you gathered from your time in the guild that you joined and left during farm content. And I can’t show facts, like I stated, I am just coming back from being gone for three months. I have no idea what is going on, nor am I going to pretend like I do. I wasn’t immature or disrespectful in my original comment. I’m sorry you view disagreeing with you like that.
    We joined SHP in Oct ’09. If you somehow went back in time and left before you joined, so be it.
    Sorry for this post, Anexxia. I’m the exhausted mother of a three month old baby. It causes one to sometimes be short-tempered and use less tact than they usually would.

  28. We had this officer, a decent raider. The guild leader started putting progression raids on fridays, raids he couldn’t attend. He wasn’t happy, obviously, but everyone else in the team could stay longer than usual on fridays (not having work nor school the next day). Our progression was better so it proved a good call. The officer left in the end, due to increasing drama of him finding the whole situation unfair.
    Point is: it’s a sad situation, but it’s not realistic to think that you will be taken on the ONE night you CAN make it.
    Also, as you said, you will be lacking experience of the fight & gear. Normally, people who can be online every day will have priority – as my baby explained, people don’t like being replaced after they worked for days learning a fight, especially with someone who doesn’t seem as dedicated to raiding.
    Trust me, you are not the only one with an SO and work – if your relationship and work don’t allow you to raid with the rest, then that’s the situation, your priorities have changed, you become a casual and it IS by choice. Your choice of RL over a game. I make a HUGE effort to be there for my guild every raiding night, because I want to be there, I don’t want to miss any first kill, I’ve been there for every progresion fight, I have to make some sacrifices if I want to keep it this way. And it still feels awkward every night when the guild leader says raid needs to end at 23:00 server time because it is midnight for me and I have work the other day. Now work and SOs are NEVER an excuse. You can’t be in a relationship without spending time with your baby, you can’t hold the job without, you know, being there and working, but you also can’t be there for raiding if you can’t dedicate the needed time.
    I know it seems unfair, that you’ve been there and all, but a guild needs to cater to the needs of the majority and stay true to its purpose (progression for a raiding guild, I believe). It actually is not unfair – you can’t be there for the guild in most raiding nights, you can’t or won’t dedicate your time to it, so the guild doesn’t really owe it to you to take you raiding when you WANT.
    Just think. If some mebmer makes an effort to be there every night and gets taken only once and you make it only one time and get taken every time, it would hardly seem fair to that person too. Dedication to the guild, being available and reliable needs to be rewarded too.
    Question is: why are you NOT being taken on the night you can be online? Would the team have a better composition with you on the team or with someone else? Is it because the raid leader feels like he needs to reward other players for being reliable? Would changing things to different days or similar be a better option for the guildies overall?
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    We had this officer, a decent raider. The guild leader started putting progression raids on fridays, raids he couldn’t attend. He wasn’t happy, obviously, but everyone else in the team could stay longer than usual on fridays (not having work nor school the next day). Our progression was better so it
    proved a good call. The officer left in the end, due to increasing drama of him finding the whole situation unfair.
    Point is: it’s a sad situation, but it’s not realistic to think that you will be taken on the ONE night you CAN make it.
    Also, as you said, you will be lacking experience of the fight & gear. Normally, people who can be online every day will have priority – as my baby explained, people don’t like being replaced after they worked for days learning a fight, especially with someone who doesn’t seem as dedicated to raiding.
    Trust me, you are not the only one with an SO and work – if your relationship and work don’t allow you to raid with the rest, then that’s the situation, your priorities have changed, you become a casual and it IS by choice. Your choice of RL over a game. I make a HUGE effort to be there for my guild every raiding night, because I want to be there, I don’t want to miss any first kill, I’ve been there for every progresion fight, I have to make some sacrifices if I want to keep it this way. And it still feels awkward every night when the guild leader says raid needs to end at 23:00 server time because it is midnight for me and I have work the other day. Now work and SOs are NEVER an excuse. You can’t be in a relationship without spending time with your baby, you can’t hold the job without, you know, being there and working, but you also can’t be there for raiding if you can’t dedicate the needed time.
    I know it seems unfair, that you’ve been there and all, but a guild needs to cater to the needs of the majority and stay true to its purpose (progression for a raiding guild, I believe). It actually is not unfair – you can’t be there for the guild in most raiding nights, you can’t or won’t dedicate your time to it, so the guild doesn’t really owe it to you to take you raiding when you WANT.
    Just think. If some mebmer makes an effort to be there every night and gets taken only once and you make it only one time and get taken every time, it would hardly seem fair to that person too. Dedication to the guild, being available and reliable needs to be rewarded too.
    Question is: why are you NOT being taken on the night you can be online? Would the team have a better composition with you on the team or with someone else? Is it because the raid leader feels like he needs to reward other players for being reliable? Would changing things to different days or similar be a better option for the guildies overall?

  29. Hi there. Your comment was a little confusing/repetitive but will try to reply.
    My situation and availability did not change; the guild changed the start time of its raids with Cataclysm. Which resulted in a number of folks (as noted in comments above), myself included, being unable to attend half the raids. I’ve always been sure to join guilds with raiding times that start at 6PT or later b/c I’ve always worked. And that was the raid start time (actually, 6:15 ST) throughout Wrath.
    The guild uses a spreadsheet that uses math to determine who gets seated based on being invited/not invited to raids over time. It’s not due to personal performance. My personal performance in raids is always top 3, if not top 1.
    Also, my now former guild is a casual guild not a progression raiding guild. Hence the spreadsheet approach to seating versus having a set roster of raiders.

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